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Global TV, "Global Sunday", Sunday 20 Jun 2004

Conscientious Objectors

Danielle Smith: Good evening everyone, I'm Danielle Smith in Calgary and this is Global Sunday.

Tonight, on June 28th will you be voting for or against a political party? Ad scam, the merger on the right and the usual concerns about the honesty and decency of politicians are causing many Canadians to abandon their traditional party loyalties. If you're feeling guilty about altering your allegiance in this election, don't, you're really not alone. Even the professionals are doing it.

David Orchard ran for the leadership of the federal Progressive Conservative Party in 1998 and 2003. He will definitely not be voting for Stephen Harper's new Conservative Party. David Orchard joins us now from Saskatoon, welcome to Global Sunday Mr. Orchard.

David Orchard: Pleasure to be here.

Smith: And in Ottawa she was appointed to the Senate by Pierre Trudeau but just days ago parted company with the Liberals and moved to the Conservative side of the Chamber, Senator Anne Cools joins us in Ottawa, thank you for being with us Senator.

Senator Anne Cools: It's lovely to be with you and I shall be voting for Mr. Harper.

Smith: All right we're going to talk a little bit more about that. David Orchard we all know that you're a Conservative but we also know that you think that the new Conservative party is actually a threat to Canada. I want to get to talking to you in just a few minutes but first I'd also like to know from Senator Cools...

Cools: Yes.

Smith: ...how is it that a long time Liberal has decided that it's now time to switch sides?

Cools: Well, it was not an easy decision. As a matter of fact I will say to you it was one I made with a very heavy heart and it was very monumental but put in the vernacular you could say that the Liberal train was going nowhere, no place that I wanted to be and I reached a stage where I was not prepared to vote Liberal and I was not prepared to ask anybody else to vote Liberal and that caused me something of a very personal crisis and I decided that I should take action forthwith. You know I think it was George Washington who once said that as human beings we must labour to keep alive in our bosom, in our breast that celestial fire that is called conscience and so I just reached a stage where I could no longer defend what I would call the Liberal position on many, many issues...

Smith: But you did support Paul Martin during the leadership race, didn't you?

Cools: Oh I did. I did and that is a part of the problem. I had believed...

Smith: So how did he disappoint you?

Cools: Well, I...This what I'm...I was just about to say I believed that Mr. Martin was going to bring some resuscitation, some renewal, some regeneration to a Liberal government which had grown pretty tired and pretty stale and quite frankly to my mind had pretty much exhausted its moral authority to govern and I have discovered that this is not the case and that discovery hit me pretty hard and it was crystallized for me on the question on the firearms...on the firearms registry, the firearms program when Mr. Martin in the person of Minister Albina Guarnieri promised a review of the firearms registry and as you know two other ministers made an announcement and Minister Guarnieri has not been seen or heard from since...

Smith: Hmmm..

Cools: ...by the way, so obviously she was shunted aside and then this announcement was made which is in essence...talked about no review at all. So I had to conclude that the promise of a review was a question of optics farther, farther, further actually to add to that, this firearms registry, this catastrophic, disastrous registry a colossal waste of money has now turned out to be the centre point in...in...in Mr. Martin's campaign strategy...

Smith: Hmmm. Hmmm.

Cools: ...in respect of his ads. So very clear...you know you must...you must understand that this has happened to me before in the Liberal caucus. This happened to me on the question of divorce, I crisscrossed this country and worked with many Canadians on the question of divorce, I promoted, I shared parenting and the report the Senate Commons Committee came up with the...

Smith: Hmmm. Hmmm.

Cools: ...with the concept of shared parenting and I promised Canadians that yes Liberals would bring reform and then one day from one day to the other after one minister promised change in three years, you know they just reneged totally, so if anybody who has reneged, it's Liberals who have reneged and I feel quite frankly the Liberal Party abandoned me...

Smith: Yes...

Cools: ...a long time ago just as it abandoned Mr. Trudeau.

Smit: You know and I think that David Orchard feels the same way, he's not the only one...you're not the only one who feels a sense of betrayal. Mr. Orchard can you tell us a little bit about why it is you've decided to leave the Conservative Party? Is it because of Stephen Harper or is it because of the new party itself?

Orchard: Well there's quite a number of issues here perhaps I can begin by saying I'm a farmer very much opposed to the firearms registry as well but there are much bigger issues here and I hope that Senators Cools doesn't find she's stepped from the frying pan into the fire. This new party of Stephen Harper has not constitution, it has never had a meeting of its members, it's had no policy convention, it simply took over the Progressive Conservative Party in a highly fraudulent manner, twenty thousand Alliance members joined the PC Party, swamped our membership and then voted twice, voted in the Alliance member ratification vote and the PC ratification vote and now this new party, Stephen Harper has admitted that policy in the new party is going to be exactly what he says it is. So there's no accountability to anyone least of all to the membership. But the views of Mr. Harper are going to be crucial and if you look at some of those over the past, he wanted to go into Iraq if Mr. Harper had been leading the government we would be having Canadian men and women coming home from Iraq in body bags in that highly illegal war. Mr. Harpers views on bilingualism...he wrote an essay defending...there's a local Alliance, former Alliance member out here in Saskatoon, Jim Pankiw who tried to introduce a private members bill to emasculate the official languages act and Stephen Harper wrote an essay defending it calling it "Bilingualism the God who...that failed." And Mr. Harper's position during the Quebec referendum in 1995 he stated quite frankly it doesn't matter to me whether we have one national government or several. This was while all the rest of us were fighting as hard as we could to keep Quebec in the country, this was Mr. Harper's position.

Smith: But Mr. Orchard...

Cools: I think...

Smith: ...don't the polls. I was just going to ask you though...

Cools: I think...could I just get in here?

Smith: By all means.

Cools: ...Mr. Harper I think you're being very unfair....

Orchard: Well...

Cools: ...Sorry, not...sorry, Mr. Orchard. I think you're being very unfair to Mr. Harper and I noticed that you are quoting many statements that seem a little dated. I would like to say to you, in my view what is happening is that the Conservative Party has reunited because it came apart, I mean it went in different directions and the real challenge now, and I think Mr. Harper has risen to the challenge is to show that there is a party that can reconcile western interests and eastern interests...

Orchard: Well, senator...senator

Cools: ...I think you're being...I think you're being a bit hard, a little bit unfair quite frankly.

Orchard: Senator Cools...

Cools: Yes.

Orchard: ...with all due respect, I ran for the leadership of the party in '98 I ran again in 2003, I'm a farmer from western Saskatchewan, so let me tell you the Alliance position, this new Harper Party's position is to dismantle the Canadian Wheat Board which is Canada's largest net earner of foreign currency, it's the one remaining bastion that defends western farmers against totally...totally being thrown to the wolves. He's on record that he would dismantle that institution, I just listened to his ad critic yesterday saying the same thing. They want to get out of the Kyoto agreement, which is the only international agreement to cut carbon dioxide...

Cools: I don't want to...

Orchard: ...they want to privatize the commer...

Cools: I don't want...

Smith: Okay. Okay.

Cools: I don't want to surprise you. I don't want to surprise you Mr. Orchard but I disagreed with the Kyoto agreement as well on...on...on...on...on grounds of Canadians sovereignty and I must tell you Mr. Harper this government has done a lot of committing Canadians to agreements internationally and then to come home to undermine the Parliament of Canada and I believe that such decisions should always begin at home and go abroad...

Orchard: Well...

Cools: ...so I mean and this government has done a lot of these kinds of things whether it's the international criminal court or Kyoto so there was a lot wrong with all of that so...

Orchard: Senator...senator far be it for me to defend the Liberals. I've been fighting against them most of my life....

Cools: Well. Yes...

Orchard: ...But I'm telling you I'm speaking about this new Conservative Party from in the trenches.

Cools: Yes.

Orchard: Let's talk about aboriginals. The...Stephen Harper's key man his right hand man, his advisor, his...Tom Flanagan...

Cools: Are you...

Smith: Okay. Senator Cools?...

Cools: Are you sure?

Smith: Senator Cools?...Senator? Senator Cools I just have to get you to hold on for one minute so that Mr. Orchard can make his point here. Go ahead.

Cools: Sorry, go ahead.

Orchard: Thank you. Mr. Harper's chief advisor is Tom Flanagan who came here from the United States and has made his career attacking aboriginal people. He's written a book, perhaps you can take a look at it called "First Nations? Second Thoughts" In which he advocates the deliberate assimilation of Native People and the privatization of the reserve system which will mean the end of aboriginal culture in Canada. that's why aboriginal people all across this country are fighting and are terrified frankly about what this government will mean if this...if they get elected. And on terms of the French, English issue if we have...a Harper government committed to giving more power to the provinces and the Bloc in a minority situation, the Bloc will back Mr. Harper if they get...for a price, if they get enough powers from central government dismantled and given to the provinces.

Cools: But...but...

Smith: Okay sen....panel...

Cools: But Mr. Orchard...

Smith: Panel just one moment. I have to unfortunately take a quick break. Senator Cools...

Cools: Right.

Smith: ...I'll give you a chance to respond to everything that David has said when we return but right now Canada's number one current affairs talk show Global Sunday will return in two minutes.


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